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Oil Lamps, a little light on the subject


Silver Sidelines

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Engines that travel on the railway network must have lamps.


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Hornby 8F fitted with Kenline ex LMS lamps

 

The business of fitting lamps has recently received a much needed boost with the introduction of Hornby’s New Black Five Caprotti which came with factory fitted working lamps.  I thought the working lamps rather bright and white.  I replaced my lamps with the provided spare Hornby lamp irons.  In turn I added what I think is a far more discrete black Kenline ex LMS non-working lamp held in place using double sided tape.


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Hornby Caprotti Back Five fitted with Kenline lamp


In the early 1980s Mainline Palitoy introduced their Manor Class engines, one of the first models I believe to have been factory fitted with lamp irons.  It would be around 2005 when Bachmann used the same Manor bodyshell for their Cambrian Coast Boxed Set and fitted the engines with dummy white lamps.  I was not impressed.


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Bachmann Odney Manor from the Cambrian Coast Boxed Set with factory fitted Bachmann lamps


It was nearly very good.  However the dummy lamps on the footplate were not centred correctly.  GWR lamps are attached using a pocket on the side of the lamp.  To ensure that the lamps on the opposite sides of the engine were equidistant from the edge of the footplate the lamp irons were positioned off centre.  Mainline and later Bachmann correctly modelled the off centre positions of the lamp irons but unfortunately when fitting the dummy lamps somebody must have thought it a good idea to reuse the original off centre fixing hole for the lamp iron without realising that it would leave the dummy lamps off centre.  (Bachmann omitted the smoke box lamp iron to leave space for the Cambrian Coast Headboard.)

 
Bachmann were not alone in misplacing their dummy lamps.  A lot of modellers are happy to drill holes in the centre of lamps to fit directly onto the model engine’s lamp irons.  This is not correct, ex GWR lamps should be fitted to the side of the lamp iron, the lamps on ex LMS and British Standard types should be fitted with the lamp iron rubbing up against the rear of the lamp.  On the ex LMS locomotives I achieved the desired affect by cutting a groove in the back of the lamp to match the position of the lamp iron and added a tiny piece of double sided tape on the underside of the lamp to stick the lamp to the iron.


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Bachmann 4F with ex LMS Kenline lamp fitted tight against the lamp iron.

 

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Bachmann 4F with ex LMS Kenline lamp fitted tight against the lamp iron.

 

For the ex GWR Manor I cut a groove in the side of the lamp to match the lamp iron and again placed a tiny piece of double sided tape beneath the lamp.  The handles on both the Bachmann and Springside lamps still seem to me to be far too thick.  Pictures on the Internet appear to show far more delicate handles which in the case of engines on the ex Cambrian Railway appear to have been painted black immediately above the chimney of the oil lamp.  https://flic.kr/p/2pXKwXJ  (Thank you Andrew for posting). 

 
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Accurascale Manor with I believe a Springside white metal lamp resting in the smoke box door lamp iron, NB black paint to top of handle.

 

I would experiment and cut off the handles.

 

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No handles – much improved I would say.

 

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EX GWR Manor showing the lamp iron tight against the side of the Springside lamp, no handles


I am not a railwayman and have never handled a locomotive oil lamp.  However the GW Railwayana Auctions Ltd web site has lots of pictures of locomotive oil lamps, as does eBay where sellers will often provide dimensions.  Appendix A at the end of this Blog contains some pictures of ex GWR, BR (W) and BR (M) all recently sold by GW Railwayana.  The obvious differences between the ‘Western’ and ‘Midland’ lamps is the orientation of the handles and the location of the pockets for the lamp irons.  In other respects the lamps are all very similar, which perhaps should be expected as they will all use similar components and were probably made by the same manufacturer.  The older lamps use rivets whilst the newer lamps are of welded construction.  All the pictures here show the handles formed from bent round bar.  I have seen older lamps where the handles have been formed from thin steel strip, probably 1/8 inch thickness.


I have also included an image from an eBay listing where the seller has helpfully included a tape measure.  I believe this was a BR (E) lamp and it can be seen that the handle is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 inch in diameter (7 or 8mm).  I have guessed the old imperial size of 3/8 inch.  Other sellers have confirmed that the lamps have a footprint of 18 x 17cm with heights to the top of the chimney in the range 32 to 35cm and to the top of the handle as 46 to 48cm.  One seller quoted a weight (for postage purposes) of 7kg.  You would have needed a good breakfast to lift the lamp up to the top of the smoke box door and the lamp manufacturer would probably have been under pressure to make the lamp weight as low as possible – reducing metal thicknesses and bar diameters to as small as practical.

 

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Image from eBay


What does 3/8 inch become for 00 gauge?  Modelling at a scale of 1to 76 translates as 3/8 inch divided by 76 which approximates to 1/(8 x 25) or 1/200 inch.  Using 4mm to the foot the sum is 4 times 3/8 divided by 12 which approximates to 1/8 mm or 0.125mm – very similar to 1/200 inch or 0.005inch.


Where to get something 0.125mm in diameter?  In a past life I was lucky to be given a number of reels of instrument wire.  I sorted out two types one labelled 7 x 0.2mm and the other 10 x 0.1mm.

 

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Instrument Wire – 7 x 0.2mm wires

 

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0.2mm diameter wire left 0.1mm diameter wire right


I chose to use one of the strands from the 10 x 0.1mm wire.  Whilst this is marginally smaller than the required 0.125mm I thought the difference might be taken up with a coating of white paint.  To make the handle the lamp needs to be held in place, either on its original sprue or on the locomotive lamp iron.  It turned out to be relatively easy to dip the end of a short length of 0.1mm wire into super glue and then to hold the wire against the body of the lamp.  My glue cured very quickly and within an hour I was able to gently fold the wire across the top of the lamp.  I then pressed the wire down with a cocktail stick and applied another tiny dab of super glue where the wire met up with the body of the lamp.  My glue dried very quickly.  Finally I used a cocktail stick dipped in white paint to colour the bare wire handle.

 

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Springside Lamp with new tiny handle

 

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Springside Lamp with new tiny handle

 

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Springside Lamp with new tiny handle


I am well pleased.  The technique can be applied to both resin moulded and cast white metal lamps.  The metal lamps I have seen seem to have the crisper detail.  Where the lamps and handles are painted black, such as with the Kenline lamps, I am thinking that fitting handles might not be necessary (it would certainly save some effort!).


Now where did I drop the little lamp?


Appendix

 

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Images courtesy of GW Railwayana Auctions Ltd:  https://www.gwra.co.uk/


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A1 BR(W) Loco lamp

 

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A2 GWR Loco lamp in white


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A3 GWR Loco lamp in red

 

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A4 BR (LMR) lamp in white


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A5 BR (M) in white

 

 

Edited by Silver Sidelines

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  • RMweb Gold

Thanks for demonstrating some good ideas on the lamps.

LNER/BR(E) loco headlamps were round. The lamp shown with the tape measure is a brake van one. It has a second lens behind the tape. The slot for the lamp iron is on the side and next to it is the red filter stored in its slot. The red of the rear face was created by putting the filter in the slot between the flame and lens. In places where there were adjacent running lines in the same direction or when put into a loop the filter was taken out and a white light shown to avoid the van side light being taken as a red signal by mistake.

 

  

Edited by TheSignalEngineer
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10 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Thanks for demonstrating some good ideas on the lamps.

LNER/BR(E) loco headlamps were round. The lamp shown with the tape measure is a brake van one. It has a second lens behind the tape. The slot for the lamp iron is on the side and next to it is the red filter stored in its slot. The red of the rear face was created by putting the filter in the slot between the flame and lens. In places where there were adjacent running lines in the same direction or when put into a loop the filter was taken out and a white light shown to avoid the van side light being taken as a red signal by mistake.

 

  

 

Cheers SignalEngineer you are correct, the listing actually states lamp for brake van.  An interesting description of how the filter was used and what was involved when working as a guard.  Thanks Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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  • RMweb Gold

I must admit to being rather suspicious of the red painted 'GWR' lamp as it has some features associated with BR (W) construction rather than the usual GWR way of doing things.  It also appears to be the wrong shade of red although that might be a camera/computer aberration.

 

Incidentally although it was far from common there are photos around showing Western engine headlamps in everyday traffic on the 'wrong' side of the lamp iron.

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11 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I must admit to being rather suspicious of the red painted 'GWR' lamp as it has some features associated with BR (W) construction rather than the usual GWR way of doing things.  It also appears to be the wrong shade of red although that might be a camera/computer aberration.

 

 

Thanks Mike

 

It doesn't bring a smile to my face.  As you say something amiss with the shade of red.  I am also bothered about the welded construction of the handle.  I think it should have been riveted like the white one.   I wouldn't have placed a bid on the red one!

 

Regards  Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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  • RMweb Gold
Harlequin

Posted (edited)

Hello Ray,

 

I like the fine profile of your new lamp handles.

 

The Modelu lamps have finer handles than the Springside lamps. They are still overscale but they don't seem to draw attention to themselves in quite the same way.

 

Modelu GWR lamps have pre-made slots to fit over lamp irons and the slots are offset to the side so that the lamps sit more towards the correct position:

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It's still not quite right, as you can see, but at normal viewing distance I don't think it's very noticeable.

 

Edited by Harlequin
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2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Modelu GWR lamp have pre-made slots to fit over lamp irons and the slots are offset to the side so that the lamps sit more towards the correct position:

 

 

Very useful Phil, it certainly answers some questions and confirms how much effort Modelu put into producing their products.

 

I think if you are modelling black or 'dirty' lamps then removing the handle might be the best option - or painting them black as seemingly was done in BR days on the Cambrian lines.

 

Regards  Ray

 

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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  • RMweb Gold

The red lamp certainly looks suspect. The handle type was common in the BR(W) era but the chimney looks like one I think was used on brake van side lamps.

Regarding painting the handles I'm not sure if that was paint or just bare metal. It seemed quite common from pictures I've seen.

Eric

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15 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

 

Regarding painting the handles I'm not sure if that was paint or just bare metal. It seemed quite common from pictures I've seen.

 

Thanks Eric,  Andrew's picture on the occasion of a Royal Visit certainly makes them look painted. 

 

https://flic.kr/p/2pXKwXJ

 

There are similar images of lamps and Manors on the Cabrian Coast Express, including the front cover of the Ian Allan book that was packaged with the Bachmann boxed set.

 

Regards  Ray

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  • RMweb Gold

I think that the painting of the handles by BR(W) must have come in around the mid-1950s. There are plenty of examples around after that time, some with one black top and one all white. This clip shows the lamps on 6002 on show at Snow Hill prior to the introduction of Westerns on the Paddington run.

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The first spare lamp should be stowed facing inwards, not outwards, although they often appeared like this.

 

Then of course if you don't have the correct type for your WR locos at sheds transferred to the LMR you have to improvise.

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How to use an LMR lamp on a loco fitted witk GWR lamp irons. Wedge it between the lamp iron and smokebox dart.

Lower lamp is BR(W) with painted handle top.

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8 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

I think that the painting of the handles by BR(W) must have come in around the mid-1950s. There are plenty of examples around after that time, some with one black top and one all white.

 

How to use an LMR lamp on a loco fitted witk GWR lamp irons. Wedge it between the lamp iron and smokebox dart.

Lower lamp is BR(W) with painted handle top.

 

A couple of good pictures there Eric - thank you!  People's memories can be quite imaginative.  Nothing like an original image.

 

Regards  Ray

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