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A GWR Hydra with a parcels van


Mikkel

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Finally managed to finish something. Too much scattered modelling recently. But my GWR Hydra is now done, a dia G11 well-wagon in ca. 1910-13 condition, using a modified kit from 247 Developments. Plus the usual horse element, of course!

 

 

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Ten G11s were built in 1899 for running in passenger trains, with a 6 ton capacity. They originally had Thomas brakes, later DC brakes were fitted. The photo above shows a G11 in 1947. In 1908 another batch of ten were made. They had DCII brakes from the outset, as well as larger axleboxes and an 8 ton rating, so were given a new diagram, G19.

 

 

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My point of departure was the 247 kit for the G19 diagram. This is what you get. Mansell coach wheels, bearings, buffers, coupling hooks, vacuum pipes and brake gear are needed to complete.

 

 

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The print up close. Methinks the Hydra stayed too long at the Pub last night 🙂. That wavy pattern needed some work.

 

 

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The solebars were quickly filed straight, but I struggled to file the upper framing without damaging the triangular supports beneath it. In the end I simply cut away the supports to give me proper access with The Big Nasty File.

 

 

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That helped.

 

 

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The supports were replaced with bits of styrene. Photos show they had holes, and that the solebars had a lightly protruding edge, so these were added.

 

 

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Buffers and coupling hooks from MJT. Later I replaced the hooks with 51L specimens in order accommodate their screw-link couplings.

 

 

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Thankfully the print didn’t have much unsightly “layering” - which I really dislike - but priming did reveal a bit on the ends. 

 

 

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Filler and my trusty sanding pads helped.

 

 

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The axleboxes in the kit are provided separately, allowing the wheels to be fitted without having to “flex” the brittle material. But they are intended for the G19 diagram, and thus oversize for my G11 (arguably also on the large side for a G19, TBH).

 

 

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So I looked in the spares box.  “These might come in handy one day”. They never do – until they do! 

 

 

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I found some David Geen oil axleboxes, left over from converting wagons to grease axleboxes. Strictly speaking they should be a smidgen larger for my purposes - but they come across OK to me, so were cut off and fitted to the Hydra.

 

 

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To make it all fit, I also cut off the moulded springs and replaced them with shortened MJT springs and springhangers fashioned from bits of styrene. By now the print was looking tired from all my roguery. It was the hour of doubt. Always comes, never fails.

 

 

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But onward, onward. The G11s originally had vac pipes that protruded above the deck. Later, low ones were fitted. I modified some Gibson offerings to represent the latter - original on the left, modified on the right.

 

 

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Then the brake gear. The original Thomas brakes on G11s were a short-lived design, so I have guessed that DCII brakes were fitted before my 1910-13 target. After all the G19s had them from birth in 1908. Some Bill Bedford DCIII gear was bastardized for the purpose.

 

 

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I fitted “outside-only” clasp brakes at either end, as per photos. Brake pull-yokes from the spares box, and lamp irons from brass strip. Photos of G11s show the vac pipes fitted to the right (sic) of the coupling hook, opposite of normal arrangements (see Atkins et al p152/154). 

 

 

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The livery on a 1910-14 Hydra is tricky. The convention is that “Hydras were brown” because they ran in passenger trains. But it seems they weren’t actually painted brown until WW1 (see discussion here). I’m happy to repaint it if someone comes up with strong evidence for brown at this time.

 

 

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The lettering was another quandary, as I had no exact period photo to help me. But in general, photos of HYDRAS and LORIOTS suggest that from 1904-WW1 the “GW” was squeezed on to the lower frame, as large as possible, with numbering on the upper frame. So that’s what I did. Later the GWR went for smaller lettering and moved it to the upper frame. I didn't add the "HYDRA" designation, as I'm not sure if it was applied at this time.

 

 

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The original Tare on G11s was 7.4, I upped it a bit to account for the DC brake gear (if anyone knows the exact Tare pls do let me know). I had planned to try Matt’s techniques for weathering the deck, but don’t have his type of paints and need to save some pennies. So I just used Vallejo Pale Sand + weathering powders.

 

 

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The chain is from Cambrian Models, fitted with a wire loop at one end and inserted into the headstocks.

 

 

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The inner tread plates on the deck were not originally fitted to G11s but possibly added later. In any case, they are part of the moulding on the original G19 kit and I didn’t fancy removing them.

 

 

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For the load, I wanted something that demonstrated the whole point of a well wagon, i.e. lowering a tall vehicle to bring it within the loading gauge. I liked the photos of Hydras with GWR Parcels Vans in the 1930s and ‘40s (see G11 top of page, and the G22 here). It is believed they show vehicles being returned from repairs/upgrading at Swindon. I don’t know if this was also done during my 1910-13 timeframe, but I know that the GWR Motor Vehicles Dept. at Slough had a couple of dedicated Hydras during that period, so it seems likely.

 

 

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I got out Farthing’s Parcels Van, a rough representation of a 1900 prototype built from a Langley kit 15 years ago. I decided to give it a makeover and fit it on the Hydra.

 

 

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The lettering was stripped off, and the lamps removed as these would be stowed. According to Tony Atkins' books on GWR goods cartage, the wheels on parcels vans changed from brown to red in 1909, so I repainted them. I also painted the interior cream, correcting an oversight from the original build.

  

 

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The GWR used this “mixed font” style on parcels’ vans from the early 1900s until the 1920s. Incidentally, the middle photo is incorrectly dated 1930s in several volumes. I have recently found it in the December 1909 edition of the GWR Magazine.

 

 

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I used printed paper for the lettering. The serif font is “Swindon” uploaded by @K14 to Dropbox (OTF here and TTF here). For the non-serif font I used “GWR Nameboards” uploaded by @JimC to the GWR e-list (registration required). Thank you both. The latter was used only for capital letters, with Aptos Extra Bold for lower case as this was a better match for photos of parcels vans.

 

 

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A new poster was made in Word, in the simple style seen on Parcels’ Vans at the time. The text was copied from a period prototype that I couldn’t resist.


 

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I also fitted a foot-brake (lever from a screw coupling), a proper drawbar (modified ladder), and new shafts from Chris Cox. Thanks Chris. The brakes were repositioned to be on. According to the Railway Magazine, application of station names on horsedrawn wagons ceased in 1909. It can’t have been universal as some photos show otherwise, but I decided to go with it.

 

 

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Photos show the Parcels Vans secured with timbers either end, and chocks between the wagon sides and wheels. Some balsa was cut to shape and weathered. The chocks had to be oversize to fit properly, let’s call it modeller’s license.

 

 

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Timbers and chocks in place. One photo shows light roping through the front wheels, perhaps to avoid rotation of the forecarriage, so I fitted some EZ line.
 

 

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But where to put the shafts? Not underneath, judging by prototype photos. I then spotted the above “edge-of-a-photo” view of a van on a G1 or G2 Loriot at Swindon Works, ca. 1937. Perhaps destined for scrapping or repair. There are various shafts inside, so presumably that’s where they were stored during transit. My model is of a shorter van, but the shafts do fit inside when angled sharply. However they can’t be seen, so I’ve saved them for another build.

 

 

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The chains were then fitted to the van. Photos seem to show the chains looped around the axles and turned back on themselves, with surplus chain resting on the deck. You’ll have to imagine the tensioners - they are available from Ambis Engineering, but I have to save somewhere. I tried making cosmetic ones from wire, but it didn’t look right.

 

 

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Speaking of tensioners, the Hydras had screw link couplings. I  had some 51L etches, so used these. A bit fiddly and fragile, but cheaper than ready-made ones.

 

 

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Lastly, some fancy shots. It’s amazing what camera phones can do these days, but they lack empathy: Everything  is revealed with unforgiving clarity!

 

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The original idea was that this would form part of a ca. 1913 passenger train that I’m building. But I wonder: Why run this in a passenger train, why not a goods train? In fact, that could be said of all the loaded Hydras I have seen.

 

 

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Which makes me wonder how often they actually ran in passenger trains in practice. Even in the early days, wouldn't most passengers' horsedrawn carriages have fitted on the shorter "Scorpions" and Match Trucks?

 


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Anyway, it's been an interesting little project. The result is certainly a bit rough around the edges, but it runs well enough. In fact I'm off to play with it now 🙂

 

Edited by Mikkel

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Outstanding Mikkel and very well saved. You certainly have turned that one around and the final wagon and load are certainly impressive. 

A beautiful account of your modelling techniques, obstacles and how you overcome them. really enjoyed reading your commentary and history notes whilst observing the development of your excellent Hydra.

Thank you for sharing.

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Excellent build @Mikkel that’s going to look very good in the middle of a …. goods train, or of course at the rear of a parcels train perhaps?

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Another beautifully crafted model resulting in a truly 'atmospheric' feel 😃

 

As an 'impressionist' (some might say slapdash) modeller myself, I marvel at how you find the patience for so much detail - but the results make it all worth it.  This is what I would call 'museum quality' modelling.

 

I agree with you about phone cameras - the depth of field they provide is great for model photography and I now use mine most of the time.

 

Mike

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Natural Beauties, eh?

 

*looks out of the window*

 

That's one word for 'em!

 

 

Gorgeous stuff Mikkel, truly. Not just the end result, but the skill, knowledge and ingenuity in the process, and then the time to write it up with links so a luddite like me can do a bit of learning! 

 

Thank you :)

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That's a lovely build but it's a shame that the 3D print needed so much remedial work. I'm sure the Hydra could have been printed much more cleanly than that.

 

Phil

 

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Excellent build as ever Mikkel. The resin body has come out well, thankfully very little layering to deal with. 

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Superb build Mikkel. Your attention to detail is both educational and insperational. The deaded 3 D print is emerging as a real alternative I have started using them also but I do like resin or ABS as I can smooth it with MEK.

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Northroader

Posted (edited)

If it was on a passenger train, how would the hood stand up to the wind generated by the faster speeds? Stick with the goods, I’d say. Very nice piece of work.

Edited by Northroader
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A wonderful piece of modelling Mikel and a very informative write up. 

 

Great stuff!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

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Lovely work, as always, Mikkel. There's something about the combination of horse-drawn vehicle and the rather industrial looking Hydra that adds up to a lot more than the sum of the parts. Well done too for sorting out the less than perfect print.

 

I hadn't twigged that the diagram G19 is a slightly updated G11 - Jim McGeown does a 7mm kit for the G19, which I had always dismissed as being only marginally in scope for my 1908 period. Back-dating would be simple enough though, and perhaps an opportunity to model the Thomas brake....

 

Quote

It’s amazing what camera phones can do these days

 

Indeed - though I would suggest a big part of why those photos look as nice as they do is good lighting and accurate exposure (or possibly suitable tweaking of exposure in post-production).

 

Nick

 

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Excellent Mikkel, and a project finished!  Fascinating all the different bits that you used.

 

How big did stations have to be to have one of these parcels vans?

 

 

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20 hours ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said:

Outstanding Mikkel and very well saved. You certainly have turned that one around and the final wagon and load are certainly impressive. 

A beautiful account of your modelling techniques, obstacles and how you overcome them. really enjoyed reading your commentary and history notes whilst observing the development of your excellent Hydra.

Thank you for sharing.

 

Many thanks Matt! Yes the print did require some work. Also underneath, some scraping and filing was needed for the wheels to clear the body. That said, 15 £ is not a lot and it was a good subject for experimenting with modification of 3D prints.

 

 

20 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Excellent build @Mikkel that’s going to look very good in the middle of a …. goods train, or of course at the rear of a parcels train perhaps?

 

Thanks Neal. Oh a parcels train, hadn't thought about that! So far I am just bumping it around on my small layouts, but with the mainline section of Farthing under development longer trains will be possible.

 

People who really like building Hydras should look here:  

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrw2627.htm

 

 

19 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

Another beautifully crafted model resulting in a truly 'atmospheric' feel 😃

 

As an 'impressionist' (some might say slapdash) modeller myself, I marvel at how you find the patience for so much detail - but the results make it all worth it.  This is what I would call 'museum quality' modelling.

 

I agree with you about phone cameras - the depth of field they provide is great for model photography and I now use mine most of the time.

 

Mike

 

Thank you Mike, very kind of you - although your models are very far from slapdash and mine are definitely not museum quality! I find the detailing work satisfying, but only to a certain extent and I'm struggling with the modelling priorities at the moment. There are so many "interesting" stock projects to do, but I also want to progress with the layouts. A typical dilemma in the hobby, I suppose.

 

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20 hours ago, Schooner said:

Natural Beauties, eh?

 

*looks out of the window*

 

That's one word for 'em!

 

 

Gorgeous stuff Mikkel, truly. Not just the end result, but the skill, knowledge and ingenuity in the process, and then the time to write it up with links so a luddite like me can do a bit of learning! 

 

Thank you :)

 

😄 😄

 

Thanks Louis! The prototype for the poster is seen on the right here:

 

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It was a theme in GWR advertising at the time. Looks like some wit in the publicity dept caught on to the similarity in shape between Cornwall and Italy, and took it from there.

 

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20 hours ago, Harlequin said:

That's a lovely build but it's a shame that the 3D print needed so much remedial work. I'm sure the Hydra could have been printed much more cleanly than that.

 

Phil

 

 

Thanks Phil. I don't know whether I got a bad example or they all look like this. There's also an O gauge version from 247 Developments, perhaps this one has been scaled down? But at the end of the day, I wouldn't have got there without it, and it's not costly.

 

 

20 hours ago, Dave John said:

Excellent build as ever Mikkel. The resin body has come out well, thankfully very little layering to deal with. 

 

Thanks Dave. Yes, that's the one thing that can really put me off with 3D prints, and you can't always see it in the manufacturer's presentation photos. But apart from the ends there was little of that here.

 

 

 

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Thanks again @Mikkel - of course a Parcels train doesn't have to run to loads of vans....

 

Your post made me look at the Langley model to give some variety at Henley-on-Thames in terms of my "Country parcels delivery" service and I see the model is their ref: G23 https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/product&path=190_191_200&product_id=5684

 

I wasn't sure if it included the horse, to which I have had a very quick email reply - yes it does. Thats an order to be placed for a new parcels delivery van at Henley :-)

 

Regards, Neal.

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perhaps a little cavalier with the scale there...

 

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So let's imagine modelling Italy in Z, you could model Cornwall in LBG...

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Comparing Cornwall with Italy? 

 

Well,

 

Pasty - Pasta?

 

Mmmm, PASTYYYY!

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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

On 16/06/2024 at 14:52, gwr517 said:

Superb build Mikkel. Your attention to detail is both educational and insperational. The deaded 3 D print is emerging as a real alternative I have started using them also but I do like resin or ABS as I can smooth it with MEK.

 

Many thanks Douglas. One thing I'd like to know more about is what precautions to take when working on 3D prints. I've asked around a bit, but noone seems to know how safe the various 3D priting materials are in terms of sanding, filing, etc.  Bit of a grey area, it seems. 

 

 

On 16/06/2024 at 15:08, drduncan said:

Excellent work. Inspiring stuff from start to finish.

Duncan

 

Thanks Duncan. Fancy a range of horsedrawn vehicles for your catalogue? 🙂 Preferably as kits, so we can have fun building them. But I know you've got enough going as it is, and probably would like time for your own modelling too!

 

 

On 16/06/2024 at 20:14, Northroader said:

If it was on a passenger train, how would the hood stand up to the wind generated by the faster speeds? Stick with the goods, I’d say. Very nice piece of work.

 

I have been wondering about that. If it is below the roofline of the adjoining coaches, will there necessarily be that much wind? When on the back of a fast-moving pickup truck, the difference between standing above the cab and sitting behind it is remarkable.

 

On a related note I was surprised to see the surplus chain left on the deck in the photos. I would have thought all sorts of rules applied to avoid them shifting and hanging loose over the side! But perhaps they were too heavy to shift much in practice.

 

Edited by Mikkel
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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

On 16/06/2024 at 21:14, 46444 said:

A wonderful piece of modelling Mikel and a very informative write up. 

 

Great stuff!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

Thanks Mark, I've just seen your 2CV post - looking forward to read that!

 

 

On 16/06/2024 at 21:38, magmouse said:

Lovely work, as always, Mikkel. There's something about the combination of horse-drawn vehicle and the rather industrial looking Hydra that adds up to a lot more than the sum of the parts. Well done too for sorting out the less than perfect print.

 

I hadn't twigged that the diagram G19 is a slightly updated G11 - Jim McGeown does a 7mm kit for the G19, which I had always dismissed as being only marginally in scope for my 1908 period. Back-dating would be simple enough though, and perhaps an opportunity to model the Thomas brake....

 

Indeed - though I would suggest a big part of why those photos look as nice as they do is good lighting and accurate exposure (or possibly suitable tweaking of exposure in post-production).

 

Nick

 

Thanks Nick. Yes the Connoisseur kit looks nice. There are builds of it here and here.

 

My original plan was to do the G11 as first built, with the Thomson brakes as you say. But I realized that what I really need is to expand my stock for the years just before WW1. It would be nice to see you do one in early condition - in red livery, of course!

 

 

On 16/06/2024 at 23:56, ChrisN said:

Excellent Mikkel, and a project finished!  Fascinating all the different bits that you used.

 

How big did stations have to be to have one of these parcels vans?

 

 

Thank you Chris. I don't think the smallest branchline stations had them, but on the other hand you don't need a particularly big station to justify a Parcels Van, I think. Here is the Chipping Norton van:

 

chippingnorton.jpg.7cd3bfc6d81855e7859f2bc369627892.jpg

 

 

And here is Henley on Thames, a larger location of course:

 

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Edited by Mikkel
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Mikkel

Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Thanks again @Mikkel - of course a Parcels train doesn't have to run to loads of vans....

 

Your post made me look at the Langley model to give some variety at Henley-on-Thames in terms of my "Country parcels delivery" service and I see the model is their ref: G23 https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/product&path=190_191_200&product_id=5684

 

I wasn't sure if it included the horse, to which I have had a very quick email reply - yes it does. Thats an order to be placed for a new parcels delivery van at Henley :-)

 

Regards, Neal.

 

 

Yes, that's the one Neal. As mentioned the kit is a bit rough. I believe it is intended as a model of this 1900 prototype:

 

20240617_081814.jpg.b99f59d66ed6e1786eac307519abd4d0.jpg

 

In "GWR Horsepower" by Janet Russell it is described as "a light parcel cart" intended for use in "Manchester, Frome, Bath and Yeovil" and that it cost "in the region of 60 £". It has the early simple livery seen on some vehicles around 1900.

 

For the Henley Parcels' Van, see post above.

 

 

3 hours ago, ullypug said:

Very nicely done indeed!

 

Thanks Andrew! I've done a bit of shunting with it now, though the laborious way as it has screwlinks. If it's going in my goods trains it will need Sprat & Winkles. Except, there's nowhere proper to mount them on this one! 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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Amazing and beautiful workmanship as always.  Love all those old prototype pictures you use for reference.  I don’t know about you, but I always wonder about what happened to those people and what type of lives they went on to have etc?  It’s a sobering thought that one day our own lives will be merely condensed down to snapshots in time too! 

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Thank you Mike. I have exactly the same reflections about people seen in historical photos. We are lucky that a few wrote their reminiscences, and that authors like Kevin Robertson made an effort to meet and interview others. E.g. I can recommend these two from the DN&SR:

 

image.png.5a055fafaa8b83081bdea8a47bec0e28.png 41OMWUg6SkL.jpg.0def60778d673d760f755c60d0c2dea5.jpg

 

 

But of course, the vast majority of railway lives - and passenger lives! - go untold. There are a couple of photos where I would like to model what I imagine happened to those people after the photo had been taken. But it is perhaps a little sensitive because they were real people and I wonder if it is acceptable to tell an imagined story about them... 

 

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9 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Thanks Duncan. Fancy a range of horsedrawn vehicles for your catalogue? 🙂 Preferably as kits, so we can have fun building them. But I know you've got enough going as it is, and probably would like time for your own modelling too!

 

Yes I do have a bit going on and would like time for my own modelling! BUT I do need pre 1891 horse drawn vehicles for Nampara - a horse omnibus type thing to get guests to the just opened Headland Hotel (which is now operated by the GWR), and a couple of light goods/delivery carts. If someone were to send me suitable e-drawings…..

 

D

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gwr517

Posted (edited)

22 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Many thanks Douglas. One thing I'd like to know more about is what precautions to take when working on 3D prints. I've asked around a bit, but noone seems to know how safe the various 3D priting materials are in terms of sanding, filing, etc.  Bit of a grey area, it seems. 

 

I should have added that we should take note of and use all precautions when using MEK or any other solvents when modelling. Masks and Nitrile gloves along with adequate ventilation for example.

 

Edited by Mikkel
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