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Dapol Class 22 conversion to P4 - a new approach


A while ago, I restored some of the photos from my original RMWeb blog on the subject of converting a Dapol Class 22 loco to P4 - 

Unfortunately I still haven't got round to restoring the rest of the photos....sorry about that.

 

However, I have recently converted another of these models to P4, this time for my friend John (Re6/6), for use on his Forest of Dean P4 layout 'Parkend Marsh Sidings'.

 

This is a green model, with full yellow ends. Only two locos carried this livery combination and John's - D6331 - did actually make an appearance in the Forest after the end of steam (in fact the Class 22s replaced Class 14s on Forest services until they were themselves replaced by Class 25s in the early 1970s).

 

The Dapol model uses split axle pick up, with the two separate halves of the axles being joined by a fairly robust nylon gear assembly in the middle. The axles run in brass bearings, which in turn fit into the plastic bogie side frames, with phosphor bronze pick ups bearing down on the brass bearings.

 

The original conversion described in the blog above, used Ultrascale 3'7" S.R. tender wheels as a basis, because no one did the actual wheels (this is still the case, as far as I know). The tender wheels have one less spoke than the prototype Class 22, but I won't mention that again, if you don't either...

 

John has two Dapol models for the layouts and had one set of the Ultrascale tender wheels on order from several months ago. Those were destined for the second Class 22. For the first loco, I obtained a set of Alan Gibson equivalent tender wheels and set about starting the conversion process in exactly the same way as described in my original blog.

 

To cut a long story short, using Gibson wheels didn't work, for the following reasons:

 

- the plastic used in the Gibson wheel centres is softer than the nylon used by Ultrascale, so that when I attempted to solder the connecting piece of 0.4 brass rod to the slot cut in the axle end, the wheel centre immediately went soft and started deforming

 

- something similar happened when I attempted to solder the 0.4mm brass rod to the slot cut in the wheel rim

 

I tried soldering the brass rod to the axle end without the wheel in place and then sliding the wheel along and soldering the rod to the wheel rim, but I had the same problems with the plastic centres, even with the soldering iron temperature reduced.

 

I eventually got the loco to run, but it ran like a demented, waddling duck and was clearly not fit for traffic.

 

At around this time, John's Ultrascale order for the second Class 22 arrived, so he got them over to me in short order and I started again.

 

The job was made harder, because I had had to epoxy the Alan Gibson axles into the nylon gear holes, so the dried epoxy had to be removed and the centres of the gears gently reamed out.

 

This time I thought I would do the job using the Ultrascales a bit differently.

 

Rather than cut the Ultrascale axles and use a shorting piece of 0.4mm brass rod again, I decided to go for keeping the axles intact and using wiper pick ups on the plastic bogie side frames, which would then be hidden once the outer bogie side and keeper plate assembly had been re-affixed.

 

Unfortunately I can't find any photos from the abortive Alan Gibson wheel stage, as described above, so you'll have to take my word for it for now and possibly just forget all about that embarrassing failure...

 

This is the Dapol side frame with a thin piece of copper clad sheet superglued in place:

20240531_153954.jpg.0c5721d0c90eaad1a9601ccf1f627d58.jpg

 

To get the power from the copper clad to the internal pick ups, a small hole needs to be drilled (0.7mm) in the plastic bogie side frames and a short piece of wire soldered to the copper clad and the Dapol phosphor bronze pick up inside:

20240531_160439.jpg.318afca441355aca16a6e56651d8bae5.jpg

 

I used 0.33mm n/s wire for the actual pick ups:

20240531_161640.jpg.57a0d3c5fcb2c955a840c7e0ea039375.jpg

 

The Dapol OO wheels were dis-assembled in the usual way. It's still necessary to ream the centre of the gear unit out a little, to enable the Ultrascale 2mm axle to be a tight push fit.

 

I also turned the outside of the gear assembly a little in the electric drill, to put a slight taper on either side of the gear assembly, which would help the Dapol brass bearings slide over them in traffic:

20240601_111530.jpg.68c6d8a27328fdc2ca9beb6a246ad363.jpg

 

Having then assembled the wheels into the bogies, I wondered why the loco wouldn't work, due to a persistent short circuit...

 

20240531_160450.jpg.33930679a2c85e3dec6fa68db11afcb7.jpg

 

After a refreshing cup of herbal tea, I realised that I hadn't shortened the p/b pickups so as not to touch the brass axle bearings any longer....

 

This was then done and it then looked like this:

20240601_111602.jpg.496015a9b34c504fab7a3b2ed2077607.jpg

 

This is what each bogie looked like, once the pick ups were in place:

20240601_113656.jpg.a0ad2e4aceb7cbc36019e53c8bd68ebf.jpg

 

The wheels were, as stated previously, from Ultrascale:

20240601_114541.jpg.06640127c6c9945e6ea301105e26f7a1.jpg

 

This time, I didn't cut the axle into two halves, but used the whole axle. As per the last time, a small 1mm wide piece of 2mm internal diameter brass tubing was cut for each axle end to form a washer and put onto each axle, together with the Dapol brass bearings, as per the following photos:

20240601_111901.jpg.010ddc5b2d2deefd993cdfd98632d7eb.jpg

 

20240601_112037.jpg.500f721dfabd0e1b4cf5f8cc80517173.jpg

 

20240601_112052.jpg.76f73b6c8e8bdf641c4e2a7bafaf5e54.jpg

 

20240531_154009.jpg.dd33040ac5dd9a1f9f0cb22c3e493667.jpg

 

Each wheel and axle assembly was then put into the bogies:

20240601_114634.jpg.33e6cb9aef21cc8dfbaf71b1865daada.jpg

 

With the view of the completed job looking like this:

20240602_102612.jpg.dd7ea2d40dc1153ffd4dc76fa2beae99.jpg

 

20240602_102630.jpg.bc6b8a53c055b638d54a51668547a44f.jpg

 

The pick ups were pretty much invisible, once the bogie outer side frame and keeper plate assembles were put back in place.

 

All that remained was to add the headcodes:

20240603_113822.jpg.066ea83c64ce25e306420d6e28ec2eaa.jpg

 

20240603_113836.jpg.bdad790f7093d46ea77f3d330bc40292.jpg

 

...add a working screw coupling with a steel end link for our magnetic coupling poles and add the buffer beam pipework:

20240603_153846.jpg.53d9d4a7b8064d04d964c7b10c8274e4.jpg

 

I had previously glued the lower body panels permanently in place, as I did on my blue Class 22 a few years ago.

 

I haven't yet added a crew, so this will have to be done once I've got a ModelU driver and secondman painted in due course. What I did do to facilitate this, though, was to unglue the cab interior moulding from the rest of the body, scrape the old glue off and re-position it back inside the body. Friction holds it in place just fine and the lack of glue will make it much easier to remove later on.

 

I will weather the loco shortly.

 

I have now weathered the loco:

20240615_122024.jpg.967508bdd3c6c5dc8cd1697bc35f8649.jpg

 

Edited by Captain Kernow
Finishing off blog.

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  • RMweb Gold

Excellent work CK for which many thanks. It was given a long running session on Monday night on DRAG's test track and performed faultlessly.

 

As 'Marsh Sidings' is appearing at the 'Larkail International Festival of Modelling' in Bath soon, it'll be a nice bonus to add it to the roster!

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Thanks, Tim. That looks a good deal easier than the split axles method - I've got one of these to do for Torre - and I'll definitely do it this way!

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Looks great Tim.

For those of us not fortunate enough to have an order with Ultrascale, do you see any reason why your new method wouldn’t work with Gibson wheels?

I’ve one to do at some point.

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As Ullypug suggets, presumably if you'd used wiper pickups for the Gibson wheels as you did for the Ultrascale ones, they would then have (hopefully) worked just as well?

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I've done the conversion with Gibsons using basically the same method. I'd need to look up which ones I've used but like the Captain's Ultrascales 1 spoke short.

Stu

22Gibsons.JPG.87d292235e1c81e1139dbc5b11e866dd.JPG

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Captain Kernow,


Thanks for this explanation. My attempt at the split axle conversion with Gibson wheels failed as well - I’m pleased to see it wasn’t just the way I tried to do it!

 

I used the same method as your latest conversion for my second attempt with the Gibson wheels. Much more straightforward and it runs very nicely. 
 

Just got 2 more to do for Bodmin/Wheal E….

 

Jeremy

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Very useful, thanks. I have one of these to convert and was considering using wiper pickups too.

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Captain,

 

I’m about to dive in and convert a 21 to P4 by following your example but a couple of questions occur. First, are the existing Dapol wheelsets split axle? (I assume they must be because of the pickup arrangements). Second, will the axles twist out if one is careful or is some brute force needed?

 

Cheers,

 

David

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Hi,

If it's the same as the 22 which I assume it is the they are split axles. They should come out fairly easily (or far too easily in some cases)  but use  care as the collars seem to be prone to splitting though if you're going down the solid axle route won't be much of an issue, just a spot of adhesive to keep them in place if they feel a bit loose.

HTH

Stu

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