Hornby class 56 & 60 tension lock couplings

[alleras]

I've gone on about the problems I have been having with the tension lock couplings on the Hornby class 56 & 60 locomotives and so I feel it's now time to ask for advice from any other 56 & 60 owners on the forum. Derailment of the leading wagon is such a frequent occurrence for me that I really can't believe I am the only one who experiences this and so there must be a solution out there.

 

It appears to me that the coupling, which is tensioned by a small spring and is able to extend back and forth, is pulled to one side when going round a curve but isn't always returned to a more central position when back on a straight track. Subsequently, the next time it goes round a curve the couplings tangle and it attempts to flip the leading wagon over. I know that I can add weight to the leading vehicle of the train to prevent it from becoming derailed because that's what I had to do with my MGR wagons but I don't really want to have to do that with every single set of wagons I would like to be able to use behind these loco's. I'm not even sure how to disassemble a Bachmann TEA to be able to add any additional weight and so why should I risk damaging a perfectly good wagon when it is the loco coupling that is at fault. The TEA is another example of a wagon that constantly derails when hauled by a 56 or 60, and it's always the leading wagon - the one immediately behind the loco.

 

Have you experienced similar problems or perhaps you can more accurately describe just what is causing the coupling to derail the leading wagon? It's certainly not a problem that is confined to small radius curves because the wagons are derailed even on the large curves in my garden.

 

As good as they are, and I really do like the Hornby class 56 & 60 locomotives - the 60 being extremely powerful, I'm at the point now where there is no way I would purchase another one unless I could guarantee being able to run them without fear of constant derailments.

[Waverley West]

Hi alleras,

 

You're far, far from alone. See this thread from the previous incarnation of the forum:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40418

 

Like you, I have been driven to distraction by this problem and it affects my Hornby 50s and to a lesser extent 31s as well. As a result I have 4 or 5 class 50s sitting in boxes awaiting modification... or sale.

 

I have written to Simon Kohler at Hornby about the problem, but never received a reply, despite the significance of the problem. I've been totally put off buying any more large Hornby locos with this coupling arrangement, at least until I come up with a satisfactory modification which doesn't take too long.

 

The coupling really is useless (unless you happen to have the right load on the loco and the right curves on your layout).

 

Anyway, rant over. Have a peek at the above thread. Some people have managed to overcome the problem on their layout, but they do seem load- and layout-specific solutions.

 

Better still, write to Simon Kohler too.

 

Cheers,

Dave

Waverley West

[alleras]

Thanks for that Dave. I had done a search on the new forum and not come up with any related problems but never thought to go back to the old forum.

 

Can I take it that the current class 50 also has these ridiculous couplings? I was really looking forward to getting a sound-fitted class 50 as I don't have an example of a class 50 at all but was put off initially by the fault with the lights. It was thus my intention to wait until the release of the large logo blue one in the hope that the lighting problem may have been addressed but to be honest now, if it has got similar couplings to the 56 & 60 then for that simple reason alone I really won't be bothering at all. It's simply not worth the hassle. I already have approximately £750 worth of Hornby class 56 & 60 locos that are of little use to me at present unless I can find a way to get them pulling wagons without derailing them. And you received no response from Hornby when contacting them regarding the problem....? Doesn't appear to be a trivial problem to me.

[Waverley West]

Yep, I'm afraid the 50 has exactly the same coupling, except that it's probably caused me more hassle than those on the 56s. I have partially managed to resolve the problem with the 56 by removing the coupling hook, but the coupling still doesn't retract (20-25 wagon trains) and it still doesn't work particularly well over reverse curves either.

 

I have fitted a coupling loop to one of my 50s which works reasonably well, but it's fitted to the body and really needs to be fitted to the bogies for 100% reliability. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found a good way of attaching it to the bogie. I have a couple of 60s too but haven't run them yet. I'm not really inclined to either until I can sort this problem.

 

I honestly can't see why the issue hasn't caused more of a stir amongst the railway modelling fraternity and forced Hornby into redesigning the coupling. They use it on all their new diesels (31, 50, 56 and 60). I've had similar problems with wagons fitted with the same type of coupling too (the Heljan Cargowaggon for one). Maybe we're just an unfortunate significant minority. Presumably it doesn't affect those with end to end layouts as much. I also can't see how on earth the coupling has got past the testing stage and been put into production. Hornby seem to have no idea of or interest in the scale of the problem. It's such an unnecessary problem too. Oh humm.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Gents,

I'm most interested to see this thread and have also looked all the way through the thread on RMweb3 - to no avail!

As you may gather, i and a couple of colleagues from my club, have had this problem for some time. We have many examples between us of all of these large modern Hornby locos and the first thing i would like to say, in Hornby's defence - they are superb models.

Unfortunately, a lot of us don't want just good models, we want great models that can perform really well (sometimes better than the prototype!).

In my case this means pulling 12+ coaches or a 36 wagon MGR up a 1 in 40 grade and around a shallow curve at the top, also my trains have to negotiate some 450 - 500 degrees of curvature through hidden sidings, later they hit a 180 degree bend with full superelevation - and thats only just over 3' diameter!!!

Tough stuff, i think!

Oh! and i pretty much standardise on Kadee couplings!

Anyway, i've tried the usual weights in leading wagon and etc - this is only succesful up to a point (with Heljan & Bachmann!).

As has been said previously, the Hornby problem is the lack of coupler centering itself under load AND the lack of locking coupling between loco & train/leading vehicle.

My solution is to give up on Kadees (tension locks went out the door years ago!) and try other NEM compatible couplings!

I discovered that the new type of Trix/Marklin european coupling has sufficient "lock" when coupled to it's partner to pretty well alieviate this problem - FOR ME!!!!! Of course, i can't guarentee it will do the job for you but i hope it could help.

After much hunting on the Gaugemaster site, i found them: http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=MN07203&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Marklin 7203

Marklin item number: 7203

They're "only" £46.50 for 50 couplings, unfortunately! They may be available individually/in pairs from other Marklin/Trix dealers however.

I took mine off my Marklin/Trix wagons that had their couplings replaced by Kadees!

Good luck guys,

John E.

[Ron Solly]

If you converted to Kadee couplings and attached them to the body/chassis like USA outline diesels from Athearn, etc, then I think your problems will be over.

[Allegheny1600]

If you converted to Kadee couplings and attached them to the body/chassis like USA outline diesels from Athearn, etc, then I think your problems will be over.

 

 

Hi Ron,

I wish! Sadly, the buffers get in the way OR i would have to use extra long Kadees which would increase my buffer gaps back up to what they would be with tension locks, or worse!

I know, can't have everything etc!

Thanks anyway,

John E.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Alleras,

 

To see how the installed close coupling mechanism should work, do you have any Bachmann mk1 or mk2 coaches? if so these come with a rigid bar coupler imitating hoses with NEM pocket fittings. Try that between the 56 or 60 and an NEM equipped wagon. That should demonstrate how the mechanism is properly recentred when linked by a bar to the next vehicle. Roco sell a coupler which works particularly well at forming a bar between vehicles, Hornby offer a longer clone as R8220. I use the Roco version for close coupling the Hornby Pullman coaches which have the same mechanism as these diesel locos, with excellent results.

 

 

[HLT 0109]

Alleras,

 

To see how the installed close coupling mechanism should work, do you have any Bachmann mk1 or mk2 coaches? if so these come with a rigid bar coupler imitating hoses with NEM pocket fittings. Try that between the 56 or 60 and an NEM equipped wagon. That should demonstrate how the mechanism is properly recentred when linked by a bar to the next vehicle. Roco sell a coupler which works particularly well at forming a bar between vehicles, Hornby offer a longer clone as R8220. I use the Roco version for close coupling the Hornby Pullman coaches which have the same mechanism as these diesel locos, with excellent results.

 

Interesting you should give Bachmann Mk 1 coaches as an example of how the job should be done - I've been reading this thread with interest because I have a similar problem with said Bachmanns (and their Pullmans) and often curse them! The only way I can get any sort of success is first to ensure that each coach is coupled to the next perfectly (eg ensure the hooks are not the wrong side of each other) then I may be able to get a train running round my whole layout without uncoupling or derailing. However, it remains impossible to reverse a train without decoupling on second radius curves because, when the coupling is extended, it seems as if there is excess leverage on the curve which pushes the bogie off the rail. Even on a straight, the couplings overlap if there is any variation in track level. Very annoying. Another trait is that, as a train enters a curve, it is lengthened which means the rearmost coaches slow down - and then have to catch up as the train straightens. This lurching can cause derailment. I really think this type of coupling is a disaster and the closer coupling is, in my view, hardly noticeable. My most reliable rolling stock in this respect is the older Hornby products with the large TLCs! Haven't had the courage yet to try Kadees as, realistically, it means changing all of them.

 

Harold.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Why not give the supplied 'hoses' connector a trial, just to see what the operation is like with a rigid connection? Kadees will perform better than a tension lock, but are a little too flexible thanks to the swinging head of the NEM mounting types. The best commercial coupler for Bach mk1s is the Hornby R8220, this is what I now use on my Bachmann mk 1 sets. This brings the corridor connectors into contact on straight track. It may be necessary to shave a little off the underside of the bufferbeams for free operation, as the top of this coupler can rub on the deeper centre section of the bufferbeam.

[alleras]

Alleras,

 

To see how the installed close coupling mechanism should work, do you have any Bachmann mk1 or mk2 coaches? if so these come with a rigid bar coupler imitating hoses with NEM pocket fittings. Try that between the 56 or 60 and an NEM equipped wagon. That should demonstrate how the mechanism is properly recentred when linked by a bar to the next vehicle. Roco sell a coupler which works particularly well at forming a bar between vehicles, Hornby offer a longer clone as R8220. I use the Roco version for close coupling the Hornby Pullman coaches which have the same mechanism as these diesel locos, with excellent results.

 

Hi and thank you for the advice. I do have some Mk1 coach rigid bar connectors and also some Hornby R8220 couplers and once the weather picks up and I get get some stock outside I'll give both types of couplings a try with the Hornby class 56's and see if they are an improvement.

 

In the meantime I've carried out a rather 'crude' modification with one of my class 60's to try get the coupler fixed back on the bogie. Using an 'L' shaped piece of plastic cut to a size equal to the distance between the outer edges of the sandboxes at the front of the class 60 bogie and with a slot cut into the rear face into which the rear of the original Hornby class 60 coupling socket is firmly 'Araldited', the entire section is then affixed to the sandbox fronts again using 'Araldite' (I would imagine other fixatives are available). It's currently put to one side to harden fully but it looks okay, feels firm enough and it lines up with the wagon couplings. I will test it out later to discover if it's secure enough to haul a heavy load. The photo's below will hopefully demonstrate what I've tried to do but with my faltering eyesight I'm sure it could have been done neater and perhaps better all round.

 

 

From the side it doesn't look much different from the original coupling (the coupling hook has still to be replaced) and it's not that noticeable that a section has been glued on to the sandboxes. As I have also used the original class 60 coupling socket it's still possible to change the coupling type as before.

 

 

I can put up with any minor blemishes so long as the thing works and I can use the loco to pull a train round my garden layout. After all, that's the reason I purchased it in the first place.

[alleras]

Just a quick update regarding the modification made earlier this afternoon to my Hornby class 60 coupling.

 

Although I haven't been able to do a complete circuit because of the fact that the viaduct is covered against the weather, and without going round and cleaning the tracks as I would normally do, I sent the class 60, with its modified coupling, out of the shed and around to the viaduct hauling the 14 Bachmann TEA wagon set. I then removed the loco and placed it on the other end of the train and returned it to the shed. The smallest radius curves on my layout are those that actually run through the shed where they are as little as 36 inches, so I sent the loco through the shed area and finally reversed it back inside. The coupling worked perfectly throughout and just viewed from above it is clearly obvious that the bogie is the correct place for the coupling to be located. I just hope that the 'araldite' proves sufficiently strong to withstand the trailing load and will certainly be doing the same modification to my remaining class 60 and to my class 56's if it's possible (haven't checked the 56's yet).

[Hilux5972]

Hi all

 

I got around this by putting some extra weight in the leading wagon. I have never had it happen when pulling coaches though.

[alleras]

Hi all

 

I got around this by putting some extra weight in the leading wagon. I have never had it happen when pulling coaches though.

 

Yes, I too have had some success with wagons by adding additional weight but with the Bachmann TEA's I couldn't see a way to access the interior of the tank. It was then that I thought why on earth should I need to mess around with a perfectly good wagon, (and with my luck possibly cause lasting damage) when it isn't itself at fault. I chose instead to try alleviate the problem at its source and hopefully the modification with the coupling on the front of the bogie should be enough. In all honesty I should perhaps have sent the whole lot back to Hornby.